Curse

pbh · Sep 16, 2005, 11:42 AM // 11:42

I agree 100%. I HATE PuG groups. Espicially in tombs. I refuse to do tombs with a random group. No one ever knows what to do it seems, and I hate loosing. Thats why I would rather do 4v4 with people I know or just do random 4v4 knowing that everyone is stuck in the same boat then do a PuG tombs team. Unfortunately I'm still looking for that good guild, so no option there.

Swarnt Brightstar · Sep 16, 2005, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Try dealing with that in a guild battle...

People just dont listen...

*huffs*

Teufel Eldritch · Sep 16, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Someone on another forum(I wish I could remember who) once said this...

Quote:

There are 3 difficulty levels in Guild Wars...

1) Extremely Difficult - PUG's
2) Normal - Henchmen
3) Extremely Easy - Guild groups

Not a truer statement could be said about GW.

Toral Xi · Sep 16, 2005, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Being a Mesmer primary I had a hard time getting into groups and used Henchmen most of the time. They actually can do a decent job and the only missions I had trouble completing with them was Elona Reach and Thunderhead Keep. The best part about henchmen is they never go afk or drop halfway through a mission.

Ollj · Sep 16, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Hencheman Power!
They are just WAY too good compared to average human players!

Whenever noone of my guild was there i did this char:
Just made it till Deldrimor War Camp, barely any runes on me, barely any skills undlocked with that character (only did ~3 quests to reach level 13 before fighting doppi), ascended (did all the desert missions as level 10 with hencheman only, and i didnt run trough), 200 attribute points to spend...

All that done with hencheman only, within 3 days.

Ashley Twig · Sep 20, 2005, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toral Xi

Being a Mesmer primary I had a hard time getting into groups and used Henchmen most of the time.

I am doing some "advertising" campaign for mesmers atm. I join PUGs in lower levels (FortRanik, Sumria etc.) to show people, that it's ok to have a mesmer on the team, and that they are indeed quite usefull.

Ok, any lvl20 char will be superior in the lower levels, but that way, people can get used to having a mesmer around, so may, they'll invite one, when they reach higher levels.

Tijger · Sep 20, 2005, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van the Warrior

earlier today i tried to do Iron Mines with my ranger who im tryin to finish the game with as stressed in the first paragraph/rant, well i joined a PuG and dear lord after the first PuG it was downhill idiot central getting to the Seer, fighting to markis was easier with HENCHMEN so yeah its further reasserted my ZERO faith in the competence of the PuG and with that im done i just want to know if even one person at some point has felt this way

(oh and dont suggest joining a guild because in most cases they arent that much better)

GW is the first time I've ventured into online playing in any serious way and it has definitely been a mixed bag in terms of the playing experience. Some of the people I've met have been great, some of the PuG's I've been in have been awesome, most have been mediocre, some atrocious.
I enjoy the game a lot and I refuse to let the occasional moron, scammer, quitter or selfish git ruin it for me, I've made some good playing friends that I regularly team up with for UW and FoW so I cannot say its been all bad, definitely not in fact.

I think I'm a reasonably good player, not great in any way or in possesing of TEH MAD SKILLZ, I try to approach the game with respect for the fact that anything can be countered and a modicum of intelligence, seems to work for me. I've started a new char now that my gf is playing GW together with me, its a hell of a lot of fun for us both to go through the game together.

What I do not get is what the aforementioned morons actually get out of the game though, a lot of them will never ever complete the game because they simply cannot fathom the concept of 'team play', no offense but the worst offenders seem to be the W/Mo's who seem to labor under the belief that 15K armors and a gold sword/shield/axe and lots of running around and bashing stuff is all it takes. Oh yes, and bitching to teammates ofcourse.

For me the best times in the game have been in PuG's, doing Iron Mines with an excellent party with everyone doing their job, T'head Keep with a group of 'rejects', having 2 of the aforementioned moron class quit and STILL pull through it, now thats a rewarding experience.
The worst times have also come with PuG's, I can do the game with henches but then you miss both the highs and lows, it kinda makes the game a bit too predictable for me.

We all know which missions shows the morons up, its the missions which require a balanced party where everyone plays to their strenghts and uses a bit of intelligence.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 20, 2005, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

Ok, any lvl20 char will be superior in the lower levels, but that way, people can get used to having a mesmer around, so may, they'll invite one, when they reach higher levels.

I did that too... Joined a lvl 6 who had been asking for help for a long time without getting any. My level 20 Me/Mo swatted the low-level mobs he'd had so much trouble with like flies, and the lvl 6 was in awe. He hardly got to swing at an enemy before I'd killed them all. We flew through the mission.
Then it dawned on me that what I was doing wasn't so much helping him as spoiling his game.
I still help people from time to time, but I stick to areas where there is some challenge also to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

no offense but the worst offenders seem to be the W/Mo's who seem to labor under the belief that 15K armors and a gold sword/shield/axe and lots of running around and bashing stuff is all it takes.

I think of it as that they're role-playing...

By all accounts the attitude of real paladins/knights was much along those lines.

Leddy · Sep 20, 2005, 10:05 AM // 10:05

There's actually problems with the henchies, mainly related to their AI:

(Good things):
-Follows your target calls
-Extremely predictable
-Reliable in most cases
-Stays in a group

(Bad things):
-If you die, they lose all sense of targeting and it's basically game over
-They're perfectly happy standing in the middle of a Malestrom
-They get stuck
-Can't split into subgroups
-Some missions are virtually impossible with henchies (Alkar anyone?)

PuGs however generally lack co-ordination and co-operation. If the group works together, then it will be effective.
It can be seen at Thunderhead Keep the most clearly. Requiring a split into two teams, we can clearly sort out the co-ordinated and co-operative players from the disorganised ones.

trelloskilos · Sep 20, 2005, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJG

The henchmen are awful. Alot of people might be idiots be idiots but on most missions it is easier to group with humans even if you do get an idiot or two.

The henchies have their moments. After reading Ashley Twig's moving but typical experience in Thunderhead, I tried to get into good PUGs to complete the mission, and get this....I was playing a healing monk!

All too often, someone else would talk to the king, I'd be trying to keep a strategic eye on who to heal when the shit was hitting the fan, and all too often, I'd get blatted at by someone who died asking why I didn't heal them (Chances are that I was trying to heal the other players who didn't stand and get pummelled, or my energy would bottom out from trying to back people up)

Breathing a sigh of desparation, I rebuilt my monk into a prot/smite, took all the henchies, and completed the mission first time round.

Same thing in RoF. First PUG i got, 2 people rushed the mursaat group. After 5 goes with supposedly "experienced" players, we couldn't even get past the first Ether seal.

A few goes with the hench team (It wasn't first time admittedly), and I completed it!

Having said that, I've been on some great PUGs. You know. The type where everyone has a laugh, where people seem to know what they're doing, where everything just "clicks" and where even a failed mission is an enjoyable experience.

Ashley Twig · Sep 20, 2005, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leddy

-Some missions are virtually impossible with henchies (Alkar anyone?)

I think I read somewhere in here, that Alkar is henchable.

The quest that I find truely impossible to do with hench would be Kryta.

Believing it would be a smart thing to do, I went to Droknar's loaded 7 hench and walked all the way back to Beacons.

Try that, und you're in for a big surprise. Thanks, aNet.

trelloskilos · Sep 20, 2005, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

I think I read somewhere in here, that Alkar is henchable.

The quest that I find truely impossible to do with hench would be Kryta.

Believing it would be a smart thing to do, I went to Droknar's loaded 7 hench and walked all the way back to Beacons.

Try that, und you're in for a big surprise. Thanks, aNet.

Don't tell me, let me guess....

You get to Beacon's perch, and your team of 7 level 20 henchies suddenly becomes a team of 3 level 12s.....

Ashley Twig · Sep 20, 2005, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by trelloskilos

Don't tell me, let me guess....

You get to Beacon's perch, and your team of 7 level 20 henchies suddenly becomes a team of 3 level 12s.....

Close.

They were ALL gone.

So, children: don't try that at home.

Angelus Angel · Sep 20, 2005, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost

Your group should have went back to town immediately, dumped him, grabbed someone else, then start again. It is faster to dump bad players than to go through a long mission like that and then lose.

Personally, I think I have a reasonable set of standards for how I want players in my PUGs to behave. Unfortunately, few players understand these:

1. Everyone must understand that only the leader or some designated person is allowed to ping or draw on the compass map. (I will allow exceptions for extreme emergencies)

2. Not every red dot in the universe must be killed. And certainly they don't have to all be killed at the same time.

3. Never leave a mission group unless you see at the top the words "Return to Outpost". The only exceptions of course being power outage, some kind of family emergency, act of god, and obvious stuff like that.

4. Never break away from your party to wander alone somewhere or to aggro some other group.

5. Never aggro another group until your party is regenerated and finished with the previous battle.

6. Always attack the target that is called and never call a target unless you are the designated target caller.

7. Know your roles. If you are a healer or spell caster, don't tank.

8. The monk is not always at fault. Furthermore, monks do not have an unlimited energy supply and monks cannot heal 1000 life per second.

9. LISTEN TO THE TEAM LEADER. There can be only one leader, and if you are not it, shut up. (This one is broken the most)

There are probably more, but I'm tired. The vast majority of the above rules are broken by most players. This is why PUGs are bad.

Couldnt have said it better myself..
I myself have completed the game 4 times (W.Mo.N.R.) And for the most part all this game takes is common sence..IMO the only noobs in this game are the ones that scream it and for the most part i have noticed that there the ones that mostly screw up for the simple fact they think there better then the team itself....

trelloskilos · Sep 20, 2005, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelus Angel

..IMO the only noobs in this game are the ones that scream it and for the most part i have noticed that there the ones that mostly screw up for the simple fact they think there better then the team itself....

/signed in triplicate!

Akimb0 · Sep 20, 2005, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Wow.....got all the way to Hablion with a semi-n00b group ( but we still got there without too much problem. ) And then our "heroic" ( Read: n00b moron ) leader rushed him, aggroes the entire bodyguard and funnily enough im left alone with the corpses of my friends who charged after him, only a quickly dwindling wall of minions between me and them. Yes thats right, the corpses of my team was more use to me than when they were alive.

Azmaria · Sep 20, 2005, 01:08 PM // 13:08

I feel that way all the time w/ henchies... They die and are more useful as bone fiends than as henchies...kinda sad, really.

Scorpion Boy · Sep 20, 2005, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Ye Minnions/Hench are sometimes better then humans

Akimb0 · Sep 20, 2005, 01:26 PM // 13:26

they always are for me, they do damage, DoT, Give me healing, Stop me taking damage and when they DO die I currently get 8 energy back.

Chev of Hardass · Sep 20, 2005, 01:45 PM // 13:45

The biggest problem with PUGs in this game, is dealing with the egotistical assholes that leave after 5 minutes into the mission.

I have beaten the game 3 times with all PUGs, and beaten missions that are hard (like T-Head) repeatedly with random PUGs.

If you cannot lead, then follow, if you cannot do that, get some hench, and talk about how bad everyone else is.

Yes, lots of people suck at this game, but leading those people to victory is far more rewarding than dragging 7 hench at a turtles pace through the missions.